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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 20, 2009 15:24:46 GMT -5
I loved that scene from the Wrestler. I spit my soda it was funny and and unfortunately accurate.
I think I got most of what you wanted to say, but having lived through the 60's et al, and have to say that it all wan't wine and roses. The music business then was the same as it is now. A business, and a very big one at that.
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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 20, 2009 15:47:16 GMT -5
Mattie,
When you posted your vid. it's a little bit ironic that the ad that shows up right next to it is for a compilation from one of the big Rock Corporations. NOW. I think without intending to, you pointed out many reasons why SEVERAL genres of rock are expeiencing a decline in population. You have one of the great metal vocalists sitting right next to NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC #30.
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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 20, 2009 15:59:18 GMT -5
Matt,
You bought up the image question. Do you think that the music channels, MTV and VH1 and any others may have also assisted in the decline of the caliber of music being put out today? The hair metal bands (a term I dislike) were greatly assisted by these outlets, but unfortunately it then became more about the image than the music. In reality I have a very hard time seeing many earlier artists making as much impact if they relied as heavily on video as some current artists do. As an example, Gerry Garcia as a sex symbol? The Allman Brothers, Lynnard Skynnard (SP) Black Sabbath?
Video may have killed the Radio Star, but it may also have unintentionally killed the MUSIC star as well.
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Post by bachfan20 on Mar 20, 2009 16:12:52 GMT -5
Ok let me pose a question here....is Miley Cyrus / Hannah Montana, Hillary Duff, Avril Lavigne, The Jonas Brothers, Lindsay Lohan etc etc the "New Rock N Roll"? Before you start laughing....let me elaborate... In the late 80's, we had the "Hair Metal" bands, ok....and lets face it, the majority of topics these bands wrote about were drinking, partying, girls and cars and fun.... It was very MALE dominated. It was all about fancy clothes, light shows, fireworks, massive stages, huge singalong chorus's, smiles and pretty faces (and big hair)....and target age group was 13 - 25. Fast forward to today....what do all the bands of the "new" generation sing about? Boys, clothes, parties, cars, fun, big singalong chorus's .....innocence....how do they dress? Flashy, sparkly... How is their stage show? Big stages, big lightshow, pyro, acrobatics, and a general FUN time...target age group? 6 - 18 would you say? And it seems dominated by Women (or young girls if we are talking about Miley). They have live bands, playing Guitars, Drums, Bass and Keyboards and Backing Vocallists, just like the Hair Bands of the 80's. The more I look at this "new" breed (and having young kids now is the reason why I HAVE to look at it) the more I think to myself that someone like Miley Cirus is really the Jani Lane of the modern era.....Women in music also seem to be dominating at this time, the circle has turned in that respect as well.... Ive been thinking about this topic all week.... So I reckon, no, Rock N Roll is not dead. It could well be SICK and on life support if you look at todays Rock n Roll "stars" and the type of music they play (if you are not a fan of their style) and I think it needs a good kick up the backside to get it REAL again....but these are interesting times...will it ever happen? Who knows... The only real difference I see between the old and the new is that the Men of the 80's seemed to be marketed as "dangerous" (some of them...some of them were also bubble gum pop stars not naming any names...) whereas today they are marketed as bubble gum sweetness....with the papperazzi and general media looking for ways to show they are not as sweet and innocent as they are portrayed.... Discuss? Am I waaaaaaaay off the mark? I do agree with you Dog to a point. Then to a point I guess I look at my own kids and wonder. I myself am not that old and I grew up with 90s rock. I still gravitated to Skid Row GNR, Ozzy etc. I can freely admit I don't listen to a lot of current rock because honestly its not my style except for a few artists. Okay I got slightly off track, sorry, anyway I have an 11, 10 & 5 year old. While my daughter loves Hannah Montana and the Jonas brothers I honestly find her listening to more rock music. The kids fave singer is Sebastian. I think maybe parents censor that they let their kids listen to more now then they did when I was a kid. So as a parent who loves all music I let my kids pick and choose what they listen too to a certain extent. I don't really care for rap so you don't hear a lot of that here. I guess honestly I'm happily raising a brood of metal heads and country freaks. LOL Did that make any sense? |
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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 20, 2009 21:36:53 GMT -5
My daughters were teens when the whole PMRC thing started. I really don't think Tipper Gore had the wrong idea. It just got blown way out of proportion. I was a mom who at least listened to what my kids were listening to, watching and yeah, even reading. I tried very hard to NOT CENSOR things, but rather use them as points of conversation and some very important life lessons. My daughter Tina who it always seems like I talk about more because of our shared musical taste, ended up being one of the straightest straight arrow people I know, but to see her in the 80's, and the friends she had at art school you would never believe she turned out that way. We had many conversations using music as the jumping off point. What do you do or say when your 15 year old daughter is telling you that It's So Easy, with it's "TURN AROUND BITCH' lyric is one of her favorite songs.
Well, I asked her what she would do if anyone said it to her.
I was very pleased with her reply that she would give the guy a good swift kick in the balls.
I would not want to be the parent of young teens in the atmosphere where in someplaces Gangsta Rap is all that is on the radio, As an expmple, NY doesn't have a metal or country station. Even in some of clothing stores and supermarkets all they play is Rap. But I don't think I would do anything differently. I would still listen, watch and read, and most importantly TALK to my kids.
edited because I can't spell for shit today.
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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 20, 2009 21:39:24 GMT -5
I'm going to talk about Michelle my older daughter for a change.  One of the funniest things she ever said to a friend of hers was "how do you rebel against a mom who hears that GNR is doing a tour, and she answers "Cool are we going and when do tix go onsale"  |
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Post by accept40 on Mar 20, 2009 23:07:04 GMT -5
My daughters were teens when the whole PMRC thing started. I really don't think Tipper Gore had the wrong idea. It just got blown way out of proportion. I was a mom who at least listened to what my kids were listening to, watching and yeah, even reading. I tried very hard to NOT CENSOR things, but rather use them as points of conversation and some very important life lessons. My daughter Tina who it always seems like I talk about more because of our shared musical taste, ended up being one of the straightest straight arrow people I know, but to see her in the 80's, and the friends she had at art school you would never believe she turned out that way. We had many conversations using music as the jumping off point. What do you do or say when your 15 year old daughter is telling you that It's So Easy, with it's "TURN AROUND BITCH' lyric is one of her favorite songs. Well, I asked her what she would do if anyone said it to her. I was very pleased with her reply that she would give the guy a good swift kick in the balls. I would not want to be the parent of young teens in the atmosphere where in someplaces Gangsta Rap is all that is on the radio, As an expmple, NY doesn't have a metal or country station. Even in some of clothing stores and supermarkets all they play is Rap. But I don't think I would do anything differently. I would still listen, watch and read, and most importantly TALK to my kids. edited because I can't spell for shit today. Now it got way out of hand with "global warming" i guess. It's all about CONTROL. |
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Post by accept40 on Mar 20, 2009 23:21:38 GMT -5
i m going to quote something from the movie "wrestler", cassidy: i love this song ! randy: goddamn they don't make em' like they used to. cassidy: fuckin' 80's man, best shit ever ! randy: bet'chr ass man, guns n' roses! rules. cassidy: crue! randy: yeah! cassidy: def lep! randy: then that cobain pussy had to come around & ruin it all. cassidy: like theres something wrong, why not just have a good time? randy: i'll tell you somethin', i hate the fuckin' 90's. for me, the reason being alive is having a good time. if i am not having a good time why should i bother surviving in this world right ? and how the hell you gonna have fun when the world you are livin in is soooooo messed up ? i mean, unemployment is off the charts, every country is trying to invade some other country etc etc. the world is not a happy place atm. in 60's, 70's 80's and even in 90's there were wars going on but rock n roll could say "fuck you, we want peace !!" new bands dont have the guts to say that. why ? because they have to earn money. how do they earn money ? by obeying the rules. and those rules are set by big fat ugly son of a bitch corporations. back in the days rock n roll could stand against corp. because the world wasnt a big machine. when you are young, lets say 15-16 years old, you are rebel against every rule. when you are around 18 you wanna have fun, drink and get laid. teenagers could find they wanted in 80's rock. now they cant. i mean, how the fuck would someone get pumped up by listening to avril lavigne or franz ferdinand ? all you read above is not what i wanted to say when i started writing ;D i jumped from topic to topic so it may not make sense but you get what i mean dont ya ? i really should stop "smoking"... Metal will always rise up and rule - if nobody had any money it would still survive in some form..solar powered. You can never kill rock n roll. |
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Post by butts on Mar 21, 2009 1:26:49 GMT -5
OK, my two cents, for what it’s worth, for those that can be bothered reading all this. It’s the bigger picture, that most have alluded to, that is really the issue here I think and it’s that picture the record companies and media have built and maintained their power bases on by understanding and pandering to it, purely by understanding some of the basics of human psychology that apply re music and entertainment. Some of our Board members have spelt those out to a degree.
One of the biggest markets is obviously the Teen/Tweenie one because they are (maybe the most) driven to get what they want, by hormones more than anything else, no doubt. Beginning the search for potential mates underlies so much of what they do and the entertainment industry takes full advantage of this by finding contemporaries for them to ‘fall in love with’ and idolise. The girls are inspired by and want to ‘be’ the girls they adore and dream of ‘mating’ with the guys. Vice versa for the boys. Basic human nature.
We all tend to want to hold on to and treasure whoever inspires the greatest heights and depths of emotional experience during those years and I think being able to do so is one of the gifts the Internet has brought to us. If we only had the record companies, TV and printed media to rely on to keep us up with what our idols are creating, doing and saying a few years down the track (like we used to before the Internet) we’d be in trouble and maybe, so would they. The media were SO much able to dictate all of that in the past. At least that’s one power the Internet has taken away from them and given back into the hands of the musicians themselves.
The other major market is, of course, the older ‘general public’. They mostly don’t dig too deeply into who or what’s available to entertain them as they are too busy digging their minds into how to follow ‘society’s’ rules to hold their own in it according to the current trends ie the ‘good job’, the big house, the nice car and placing their children on the same pathway to ‘success’. In my experience, few of them really want anything too ‘challenging’ from their music, etc. They just want to be distracted for a while from all the ‘heavy’ business of making their mark in the world and so choose lighter forms of entertainment to distract them and lift them up for a little while, and they also seem happy to choose from whatever the media presents to them as being who/what should be popular. They don’t have time to do it themselves. Being able to say to their fellow pleb, “Yes, I heard that song or saw that movie,” is part of ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ too, after all. But ‘middle of the road’, lighter music is what they naturally gravitate towards, not hard rock or heavy metal, apart from as a nostalgia trip to try to regain what they felt in their youth.
And that’s my point, finally, lol. In my opinion, hard rock and heavy metal will ALWAYS be the domain of those who aren’t, or don’t want to be, part of the mainstream, ‘general public’ lifestyle. These forms of music will always speak to and belong to those amongst us who can’t and won’t just accept and go along with what those in power and society tell us our reality has to be – that it’s ALL that is and can be for us. Because it’s these forms of music that give voice to the deeper emotions of the heart and Soul like no other form I’ve heard of can (apart maybe from some classical music). And those of us who will always want more out of life than what the ‘powers that be’ tell us we can have will want to listen to it.
We may have to live by their rules to eat and pay the bills, but we can choose to go deeper, fly higher, feel more intensely, say f*** you to all of it, through our beloved hard rock/heavy metal music. I can’t see it ever dying because the need to rebel and want to be more will always exist. It may change, yes, as humanity evolves (as per what the Teens/Tweenies of the day are looking for) but die, no.
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Post by Katkick on Mar 21, 2009 13:44:40 GMT -5
Well this video shows how I spent last summer, going from show to show. I say No rock is NOT dying, now that I'm old enough to drive and have a little money to go to the concerts; it is more alive now than ever to me... cool! Love it!  |
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rockon
Youth Gone Wild
Posts: 122
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Post by rockon on Mar 24, 2009 23:46:49 GMT -5
I've noticed a lot of peeps getting into 80's metal on Youtube, some are juz discovering it for the 1st time. Like others have said already the the face of it changes, and any genre of music has its lull, but remember these words of Kiss wisdom....
"God Gave Rock n Roll to You"
I believe as long as there is light there will be Rock n Roll - darn I'm passionate about RNR!!!!
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Post by rocknrollmom on Mar 25, 2009 23:36:14 GMT -5
I just had to contribute this to this thread. I wanted to buy a book that was released yesterday and the DVD of Cruefest that was also released yesterday. Not many people are as determined or obsessed as I am when it comes to getting what I want. I checked online before I went out to the stores. Borders said that all 4 stores in my area were already sold out of the book. I checked 2 Barnes and Noble stores too. One said they had it in stock. I drove an additional 45 minutes out of my way, and got the LAST copy of the book. It was only released yesterday!!! In addition before leaving the house I checked with both B&N and Borders as well as Best Buy for the Crue DVD. The two Best Buy stores said they had it. Well, I got to the first store and they were sold out. The release date was only yesterday! The kid behind the counter checked the other store and they had one copy left. I asked if they could hold it for me since I was already in a Best Buy that didn't have it. Back in car I went and drove another half hour out of my way.
The point I am trying to make is that not even a full day after the release of the book and DVD 4 stores did not have either. I believe that the stores cutting back on stock of music is contributing greatly to the decline of music sales. The first Best Buy (there are only two in all of the Hawaiian Islands) had only ordered 4 copies of the DVD. I got the last one at the second store. Maybe music sales would be better if they actually carried some of the music.
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Post by southernkitty69 on Mar 27, 2009 9:04:09 GMT -5
This always seems like the Eternal Question it's been asked by so many generations of the past.. Is rock Dying and Hell No! It isn't! Take for example ol Ozzy. I saw him on the Jimmy Kimmel show late last night with his wife and kids. He's recently celebrated his *60th* birthday and the man looks AWESOME. He looks 40 not 60. Take a look at Sebastian!!! Who can resist right?? Over the years, the gods of rock and metal have endured. Not only Endured... but are LOVED by the younger crowds too. Metal, Rock is a FIRE that can't be extinguished... and neither can the singers and musicians that play and sing it. It's invincible and so are the Rockers we love - a testament to the worldwide outcry to EXPRESS be HEARD and to HEAR...as long as we people experience life with our five / six senses...... Metal and Rock will ALWAYS be what the human pysche craves for. |
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Post by baranthalas on Mar 28, 2009 4:13:16 GMT -5
i think as long as metallica is alive, rock n roll will never die. because metallica is the band that makes people understand what is rock/metal in most of the countries. and to be honest, when it comes to rock n roll, it is much bigger in europe than US. maybe because you guys in US are able to watch a band more than once in year. in europe, we are not that lucky. we are waiting for big festivals to watch the bands we love and we are able to see those bands live once in a year. for example, i m trying to go to Greece to watch AC/DC. in europe (or asia or middle east or whatever) we are more desperate to see bands live. thats why i think european crowd is much more wild than US crowd. also, in europe nobody gives a shit about jonas brothers or people like that. we are far and safe from cheesy marketing rock in here i can say that rock n roll is still alive and kickin ass on this side of the globe because we are still hungry for real music. |
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Post by butts on Apr 5, 2009 9:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by jojo711 on Apr 5, 2009 13:34:40 GMT -5
this was cute butts  jojo |
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rockon
Youth Gone Wild
Posts: 122
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Post by rockon on Apr 5, 2009 21:42:36 GMT -5
Yeah that's exactly it Butts, and this is very cute |
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Post by southernkitty69 on Apr 6, 2009 16:47:42 GMT -5
Sorry AussiGirl, I thought Chinese Democracy was terrible. The fact that they hyped it up so much didn't help the fact. It was not a good cd at all IMO. In my mind, it just proves to be that Axl is nothin' without Slash. (BTW I am an AXL fan, and it hurts to say that but its true) I honestly thought that cd was going to be something that put's fire back into rock n roll. Not the case, just made us die hard's look bad. I think of a song like "better" and how great the verses were, just to be let down by such a terrible chorus. Again, this is just one opinion. I have to agree with you! Chinese Democracy (to me) was like waiting for the orgasm that ....never happens (excuse my vernacular). Alot of hooplah and great advertising before it was released, but after buying and listening to it, Angel Down still wins (for me) the BEST damned Metal Album released out in the last 2 years. |
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Post by baranthalas on Apr 7, 2009 12:54:19 GMT -5
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One of the funniest things she ever said to a friend of hers was "how do you rebel against a mom who hears that GNR is doing a tour, and she answers "Cool are we going and when do tix go onsale" 
