Is Rock and Roll Dying?

[codyt]

Since im already looked at as a controversial character on this forum, I figured I would ask the simple question: Is rock and roll dying?

Im not saying yes or no, on this one ile leave it up to you guys to decide, but before we begin this debate let me add my "Two cents"

Before I start my rant im going to take my bias switch off. As should you.

Its quite obvious that modern music has become very repetitive. It seems that its no longer about the music and all about making a few dollers. It's all the same sound although I do like a select few modern bands.

It seems that the only bands/artists making good rock records are the one's who were huge in the eighties. Motley came up with "Saint's Of Los Angelas", and although it is more modern it still has the crue sound to it. IMO it was a very good album. ACDC ( Who I was never really a fan of) just came out with a new record also. Not to mention baz's "Angel Down" and Maiden's " A matter of life and death "

It's evident that the music industry is dying with the downloading and stealing of music. In Canada its actually LEGAL to download music as long as your not "sharing" or "listening" with others around.

Rap and Country have taken over, and although Rock N Roll is still around... how much longer does it have before it completely dies down? Is it a complete circle where the world will make its way back to rock music?

Just a thought!

[bachfan20]

Honestly I would have to say that rock music as a whole is bigger than you think. This is an argument that people have discussed for a long time. Music gets to sound kind of the same and then bam a new sound or an old sound with a new band revives it. Rock music will never die because there will always be great bands taking it one step further. Maybe music is going to swing back to the way it sounded in the 80's & early 90's who know's but it sure is going to be fun to listen and see what happens.

Country music isn't as big as people think. Its also the genre of music people love to hate and trash. If you only listen to the same type of music then yes your music may at some point fade. Try broadening your horizons and embracing the different elements that make up the fantastic music you love. ;D

And thats my two cents. LOL

[codyt]

I listen to everything from GNR to Indie music. I have a pretty broad music variety ( although you wouldn't think so due to my hate for country )

I understand what your saying where another band will pick up where someone left off. Seems like the last band to really change the face of music was Nirvana... and that was a long time ago.

Now we have four cents

[Dogface]

I think the days are gone of the really "massive" Rock Band. I blame illegal downloading for this (thats another story ive already harped on about somewhere else), however I do think that the wheel will turn and Rock music will eventually rule the world again...how long its going to take, who knows, but I remember the 80's when the same question was asked and then along came the years of 1985 - 1992 when EVERYTHING changed and Rock really was the worlds most popular genre. Yes we still had Madonna and MJ and lots of Dance and Pop, but Rock was huge, Metal was huge, those years were the premier years....will we ever see it happen again? I dont think so at that level, but we will see a resurgence.....of what its going to look like I have no idea, thats the interesting part.

[wildhorse]

No music ever dies. And I don't think you hate country,you just don't know it.

[AussieGirl]

Mar 16, 2009 17:44:26 GMT -5 Dogface said:

I think the days are gone of the really "massive" Rock Band. I blame illegal downloading for this (thats another story ive already harped on about somewhere else), however I do think that the wheel will turn and Rock music will eventually rule the world again...how long its going to take, who knows, but I remember the 80's when the same question was asked and then along came the years of 1985 - 1992 when EVERYTHING changed and Rock really was the worlds most popular genre. Yes we still had Madonna and MJ and lots of Dance and Pop, but Rock was huge, Metal was huge, those years were the premier years....will we ever see it happen again? I dont think so at that level, but we will see a resurgence.....of what its going to look like I have no idea, thats the interesting part.

I definitely blame illegal downloading and I know a topic we have covered before.. but do have a dumb arse question... On weekend I was watching a MTV Cribs marathon and they did 50cents home which took an whole episode then next few had a lot of rappers that I had no idea who they were not that I listen to rap but still never heard of them.. Their homes and cars where unbelievable... and my husband said to me Yeah downloading is killing the music industry and I said it is... and he said well explain those house.. I mean they had full staff chefs and what not I mean it was not a matter of one or two good albums sales and buying your nice big house and cars this all required up keep and I would say alot of it... and just wondered why??? Are Rap fans buying more music than us metal and rock freaks and it did bug me again cause like I say I think Sebastian works hard and instead of buying fast cars and adding a strip joint to his house (50cents has strip joint) Sebastian has to work hard and use the money he makes to fund the albums...

[Leanne]

yes i think there is something strange about the music world today..im not really into any of this modern stuff...its horrible...im still really loving the BIG metal and rock bands from the 80s

[rocknrollmom]

I think the music industry is cyclical. What goes around comes back around. It isn't necessarily the artists who make or break the industry. But the other way around. You will see a certain trend repeat itself over and over. In the 50's all the labels were looking for "the next Elvis". In the late fifties, you had the first wave of teenage idols, today they would be front men for boy bands. The Beatles hit in the early 60's and prompted a wave of British Imports. If you weren't British or on the Motown label, in '66 you had no career. Late 60's you had the San Francisco Hippie movement and Psychedelia. Early 70's in rebellion to the hippies, you had the first wave of heavy metal. 80';s saw the first of the boy bands NKOTB and New Edition. They were followed in kind by BackStreet Boys, and currently by the Jonas Brothers. Also in the late 80's were the Hair Metal bands, which I totally loved, but the next big thing there was GNR. Followed by the next big thing, Nirvana and the Seattle scene. Thrash, Speed and Grunge Metal or the so called New metal followed that. There has been a resurgence in Rockabilly, which hark ens back to the early times of Rocknroll. Also seen a rise and fall again of big band music, and a lot of R&b that goes back to the Motown sound. Danny and the Juniors said it best in the late '50's ROCK AND ROLL WILL NEVER DIE. It may be on life support and waiting for the next BIG thing, but there will always be rock fans.

[AussieGirl]

Mar 16, 2009 17:06:05 GMT -5 codyt said:

ACDC ( Who I was never really a fan of) just came out with a new record!

NOOOOOO not a fan of Acadaca now I am gonna have to bitch slap you ;D ;D j/k

seriously though I was not a huge fan of new cd a few songs are ok but just will never beat Shook me all night long... has to be one of my favourite or Dirty deeds na I lie I love heaps of AC/DC..

Did love Motley Crues New album too and of course GNR Loved that album...

But Baz does not even get the promotion he deserves the amount of people that have no idea he still does music astounds me... I remember at the pub a few months before Chi Dem was released... I was speaking to some young guys I saw them wearing GNR shirts went up to tell them Chi Dem was coming and of course they knew.. anyway we got onto the GNR Tour and spoke about Sebastian and they said yeah he rocked... they where young did know who Skid Row was but not that he was once the lead singer.. and they had no idea about Angel Down... so of course I wrote it on Napkin for them... most girls hand out phone numbers I hand out Angel Down flyers LMAO... Should perhaps print out some myself Napkins look sooo unprofessional.. ;D ;D ;D

[rocknrollmom]

I don't want to turn this into a Chinese Democracy discussion, but I think that album is one of the reasons why Rock music in general may be in trouble, My original thought was I waited 20 years for "this??" and I'm sorry, I just can't get past that idea. All that keeps coming back to me is the fact that in their 7 years of existance, the Beatles put out 17 albums.

[Dogface]

Yeah I remember the days when Bands would put out 1 new album every year....KISS used to do it as well. Now we have to wait YEARS in some cases to hear new stuff. I know its all about touring now and making sure that the artists dont "burn out" and all that kind of stuff, but I still think the 1 album a year policy was great....only it means no break for the band...its Studio, Tour, Studio, Tour, etc etc....

And Aussiegirl I reckon with the whole Rap and $$$ thing...ive noticed that ALOT of these Rap stars not only have their record deal, but they are SPONSORED by big name Corporations....Pepsi, Coke, McDonalds, Nokia etc etc and you see the sponsors logos etc in the music videos...I saw a video on the weekend where the guy was taking a picture of a girl on his Mobile phone and you clearly saw the Nokia logo on the phone, they made sure that it was seen through the clip...so obviously Nokia are sponsoring the artist or the label or something in some way...extra dollars there.

[baranthalas]

i blame capitalism for ruining music.

[rocknrollmom]

Yeah, sponsorship and product placement is a big thing. I remember the big deal that was made when the Stones allowed Windows to use Start Me Up for the launch of one of it's operating systems.

[AussieGirl]

ahh yes have noticed that alot in video clips myself... never thought of sponsorship...

[codyt]

Sorry AussiGirl, I thought Chinese Democracy was terrible. The fact that they hyped it up so much didn't help the fact. It was not a good cd at all IMO. In my mind, it just proves to be that Axl is nothin' without Slash.
(BTW I am an AXL fan, and it hurts to say that but its true)

I honestly thought that cd was going to be something that put's fire back into rock n roll. Not the case, just made us die hard's look bad. I think of a song like "better" and how great the verses were, just to be let down by such a terrible chorus. Again, this is just one opinion.

[freeqout]

I think the media (print, TV & web) plays a major role in what lives or die in the music industry. Its the media players that started to create sub-genre's and impose them to the public .. they were the ones that created the term "hairbands, Grunge, industrial etc".. the media is especially harsh towards rock n metal music as a rock band can be relevant today but dated tomorrow. To a certain extent, i think the entertainment media has been paid off by the record labels to make big on bands that they have invested heavily on to ensure that they get a return on investment. for a record label .. music is about profits (investment + musician = shitloads of money).. for a musician.. music is about music (exposing the musical creativity to the fans).. so there is a big conflict where its difficult for both to see eye to eye. for example . If a record label invested 1 million bucks on Angel Down... they will use all their might and influence to manipulate the public into buying the album and make 5, 10,15 times their investment. But that was not the case.. Angel Down was an album that was mostly financed by the blood, sweat and tears of the Artist himself who does not have the capacity to play the same game as the Major record labels...
I personally dont feel that rock n roll is dying as
"As long as there are rock fans there will be rock bands"
but on whether rock n roll will be able to steal the limelight from the britney spears or the backstreet boys of this world.. its up to the Media and the Entertainment industry to decide..

[Acekicken]

Mar 16, 2009 21:35:59 GMT -5 codyt said:

Sorry AussiGirl, I thought Chinese Democracy was terrible. The fact that they hyped it up so much didn't help the fact. It was not a good cd at all IMO. In my mind, it just proves to be that Axl is nothin' without Slash.
(BTW I am an AXL fan, and it hurts to say that but its true)

I honestly thought that cd was going to be something that put's fire back into rock n roll. Not the case, just made us die hard's look bad. I think of a song like "better" and how great the verses were, just to be let down by such a terrible chorus. Again, this is just one opinion.

I love Chinese Democracy, Slash is great but he was not the only thing that made Guns n Roses what it was. Izzy,Slash, Tracii Guns & Chris Weber are all part of the Guitar sound that became AFD. Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff & Steven are what made it great. Axl dose not need Slash nor dose Slash need Axl.

.

[Acekicken]

Mar 16, 2009 17:06:05 GMT -5 codyt said:

Since im already looked at as a controversial character on this forum, I figured I would ask the simple question: Is rock and roll dying?

Im not saying yes or no, on this one ile leave it up to you guys to decide, but before we begin this debate let me add my "Two cents"

Before I start my rant im going to take my bias switch off. As should you.

Its quite obvious that modern music has become very repetitive. It seems that its no longer about the music and all about making a few dollers. It's all the same sound although I do like a select few modern bands.

It seems that the only bands/artists making good rock records are the one's who were huge in the eighties. Motley came up with "Saint's Of Los Angelas", and although it is more modern it still has the crue sound to it. IMO it was a very good album. ACDC ( Who I was never really a fan of) just came out with a new record also. Not to mention baz's "Angel Down" and Maiden's " A matter of life and death "

It's evident that the music industry is dying with the downloading and stealing of music. In Canada its actually LEGAL to download music as long as your not "sharing" or "listening" with others around.

Rap and Country have taken over, and although Rock N Roll is still around... how much longer does it have before it completely dies down? Is it a complete circle where the world will make its way back to rock music?

Where in Canada is it legal to down load music? I live a stone skip away & have read a few times of people
getting arrested for piracy downloading. Not saying that is for the whole country but Ontario is 5 minutes away for me.

Just a thought!

No Rock n Roll is not dead nor will it ever die. Just cause it's not main stream dose not mean dead. A lot of the country out there today has the element of Rock & that is a huge complaint by those who love old school country music. Rap music is like any other for there is some good & some straight out bull shit

[codyt]

Mar 16, 2009 22:22:44 GMT -5 Acekicken said:

Mar 16, 2009 21:35:59 GMT -5 codyt said:

Sorry AussiGirl, I thought Chinese Democracy was terrible. The fact that they hyped it up so much didn't help the fact. It was not a good cd at all IMO. In my mind, it just proves to be that Axl is nothin' without Slash.
(BTW I am an AXL fan, and it hurts to say that but its true)

I honestly thought that cd was going to be something that put's fire back into rock n roll. Not the case, just made us die hard's look bad. I think of a song like "better" and how great the verses were, just to be let down by such a terrible chorus. Again, this is just one opinion.

I love Chinese Democracy, Slash is great but he was not the only thing that made Guns n Roses what it was. Izzy,Slash, Tracii Guns & Chris Weber are all part of the Guitar sound that became AFD. Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff & Steven are what made it great. Axl dose not need Slash nor dose Slash need Axl.

.

I thought the cd was over produced, and under produced at the same time. It almost sounds like Shecklers revenge they are just copy and paisting.

Steven was part of Welcome To The Jungle then got the hook. I think Matt Sorum did a fine job replacing him. Not to mention that Tracii went on to have a pretty fine career of his own with LA GUNS.

Anyway, back on topic. Freeqout I completely agree with what your saying. The media play's such a large role in music its not even funny.

[AussieGirl]

Mar 16, 2009 22:22:44 GMT -5 Acekicken said:

Mar 16, 2009 21:35:59 GMT -5 codyt said:

Sorry AussiGirl, I thought Chinese Democracy was terrible. The fact that they hyped it up so much didn't help the fact. It was not a good cd at all IMO. In my mind, it just proves to be that Axl is nothin' without Slash.
(BTW I am an AXL fan, and it hurts to say that but its true)

I honestly thought that cd was going to be something that put's fire back into rock n roll. Not the case, just made us die hard's look bad. I think of a song like "better" and how great the verses were, just to be let down by such a terrible chorus. Again, this is just one opinion.

I love Chinese Democracy, Slash is great but he was not the only thing that made Guns n Roses what it was. Izzy,Slash, Tracii Guns & Chris Weber are all part of the Guitar sound that became AFD. Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff & Steven are what made it great. Axl dose not need Slash nor dose Slash need Axl.

.

Do not want to start bitch fight on board cause this is a happy place ;D ;D ;D

But yeah I did like Chi Dem... maybe not normal GNR but times change.. and I loved the album I sat there read all the words and honestly can feel Axl's Heart in the lyrics and the emotions in the singing I thought Axls voice sounded great... and I do feel for Axl after how long it took to bring Chi Dem out he was gonna cop flack and so much of the delay was not his fault... I mean if Chi Dem was out in say a year people would be great album but the fact it took so long they really are judging it far to much... and everyone picks on poor old Axl leave the man alone..

[rocknrollmom]

Ausie Girl,
I think we have to agree to disagree. I saw GNR about 15 times. In small clubs and big stadiums. And GNR was not just AXL. The problem I have with Chinese Democracy is basically that Axl solo is still using the GNR name. We all agree that the remaining members of Skid Row should have changed the band name because Sebastian is no longer in the band, but when I suggest the same thing about Axl, or say anything negative about him, my posts end up deleted or edited. If the band was called anything else, I might be able to judge it more fairly, but I don't think the band on Chinese Democracy is anywhere near as good as the Guns N Roses I saw multiple times in concert.

[PigeonWing]

Heh, looks like we've all gotten a bit off topic here
None the less, I've gotta chuck in that I love Chinese Democracy. As a HUGE fan of prog metal, I really enjoyed the highly produced, massive sounding nature of it...and Slash really liked it (and congratulated Axl), so I can't feel guilty in that regard.

As to ROCK and ROLL, I'd say that it's in a coma.
Definitely not dead, but not particularly responsive either.
Rock it one of, if not the, longest lasting, forever evolving genres of music, so I think there's still hope.

But music has commercial fazes. That is, there's a certain time period during which the big music labels (money) will back a certain genre, shove that single genre down every bodies throats, and all the other genres will be virtually ignored.

It's kinda like a snowball effect - record label backing leads to popularity of the genre, which leads to profit for the record label, which leads more backing of the genre, which leads to more popularity, which leads to more profit for the label...and so on.

During the 80s the big money was behind metal, and therefore metal was popular. In the 90s it was grunge, and now it's RnB and hip hop.

So what will the next genre be?

Given the state of the music industry, will anybody (music label) want to risk losing out by putting money into something other than a guaranteed money maker (rap/ hip hop)?

I sure hope so. And I hope it's rock related.

[newbachfan123]

New trends come in everyday. The record industries try to shape and mold these new artists into the "What's happening now" trend to make the big bucks. It has always been that way and will continue in the years to come. That is why today's artists are getting into their own labels. Just look at Toby Keith and Sebastian Bach.

I know that you are not the only one that feels that way. There are also other younger guys around your age who feel the same way. If you look at some of the 80's bands that are on You Tube and read some of the comments, you will see that others feel the same way and wish they could have been around during those times.

But however, I do believe that it will eventually make a major comeback to be the hottest trend again. Hell, look at vinyl. It is making a comeback. And also if you ask, or look into, the past when break dancing shit came in only to over shadow rock and metal for a brief moment. Except for those die hards, like yourself, who remained true to the music and kept it alive.

Will Rock N Roll ever die? In my opinion, no. Rock n Roll ain't noise pollution. Rock n Roll ain't gonna die. Rock n Roll is here to stay. ;D ;D

[AussieGirl]

Mar 17, 2009 2:06:01 GMT -5 PigeonWing said:

Heh, looks like we've all gotten a bit off topic here
None the less, I've gotta chuck in that I love Chinese Democracy. As a HUGE fan of prog metal, I really enjoyed the highly produced, massive sounding nature of it...and Slash really liked it (and congratulated Axl), so I can't feel guilty in that regard.

Looks around worried Oh no did pigeonwing and I just agree on something wow that would be a first...

Just kidding I get we all have different opinions of the album but I am one that loves it I admit it...

[bachfan20]

First off I love Axl, I don't always like his attitude but with that being said I think Chinese democracy was good.

I think it you want metal to survive then we really need to go out and buy mass albums. You could always give them away as gifts. You hear some many people say oh I love 80's rock and if it where on the radio they would still love it.

I think that there are a few things that people generally don't do now as much as they used to. Back in the day when I was a teenager (I say that as a 30 year old...I'm so old! LOL) I remember buying every Metal Edge or Hit Parader magazine etc. I remember writing those magazines saying how much more Skid Row, Sebastian Bach I wanted to see. I remember calling radio stations constantly just to see how many times a day I could get them to play it. I remember begging for t-shirts records etc.

I generally think that people as a whole don't do as much on a fan level now as they did before. One of the beautiful things about Sebastian doing these shows is sometimes there are people who just become huge fans. Sometimes tho you have those former fans who grew up and forgot how much fun it was to do all those things. The thing is demand if there is enough demand for an artist the sponsors will be there.

Music as a whole is carried by the fans. How successful an artist is depends on how much his fans support him and I think people have gotten very lazy when it comes to the old school way of doing things. The thing is the old school way worked. Yes record companies fronting money etc also played a roll but it was the fans who bought half a bazillion copies of the record.

Basically what I'm trying to say is if you want to see the face of rock music change its up to the fans to do it. Great rock music will survive as long as there are people with the desire to play it and the desire to listen.

Okay and I just remembered this point I wanted to make about albums and tours. I think the reason that a lot of bands fizzle out is the tour schedule. Do you have any idea how hard it is on body and mind to tour like that? The thing is if you want vocals to last then they need to rest. You can run into issues like nodes on vocal cords and what not from over use. Then your voice is compromised. I think an album every 2 or 3 years with a massive tour would be great and very do able. I have sat back and heard so many people trash a singers vocals after multiple albums and mass touring and the vocal problems stem from putting to much stress on your vocals. I love Sebastian's voice and think he has done an amazing job of taking care of the instrument we all love so much.

[metal4life]

True Rock Music (not shitknot, nirvana etc) will never die IMHO!!! As long as there are rebellious and talented young kids who want to learn an instrument, rock music will survive. Some godforsaken corner of the world or the other will keep producing rock gods!!
And yeah trends in music goes around and comes around -- it's like a feris wheel. Bcoz at the end of the day all musical genre's caters to an audience!! when that audience dwindles, the genre's popularity will decline. Every era has a "breakthrough" artist and genre and the record companies try to capitalize on it.

[jojo711]

Mar 17, 2009 1:33:33 GMT -5 rocknrollmom said:

Ausie Girl,
I think we have to agree to disagree. I saw GNR about 15 times. In small clubs and big stadiums. And GNR was not just AXL. The problem I have with Chinese Democracy is basically that Axl solo is still using the GNR name. We all agree that the remaining members of Skid Row should have changed the band name because Sebastian is no longer in the band, but when I suggest the same thing about Axl, or say anything negative about him, my posts end up deleted or edited. If the band was called anything else, I might be able to judge it more fairly, but I don't think the band on Chinese Democracy is anywhere near as good as the Guns N Roses I saw multiple times in concert.

i'm with you on that one peggy. it's always been kinda hard to explain but i think once you have the original<real deal> like gnr then you take away that charisma that they had just like with the skids you always remember what it 'was' and it's never the same and the name is just a name.
hope that makes sense . i know what i mean but it's hard to put into words that won't start a huge debate.

jojo

[Acekicken]

Mar 16, 2009 23:09:03 GMT -5 AussieGirl said:

Mar 16, 2009 22:22:44 GMT -5 Acekicken said:

I love Chinese Democracy, Slash is great but he was not the only thing that made Guns n Roses what it was. Izzy,Slash, Tracii Guns & Chris Weber are all part of the Guitar sound that became AFD. Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff & Steven are what made it great. Axl dose not need Slash nor dose Slash need Axl.

.

Do not want to start bitch fight on board cause this is a happy place ;D ;D ;D

But yeah I did like Chi Dem... maybe not normal GNR but times change.. and I loved the album I sat there read all the words and honestly can feel Axl's Heart in the lyrics and the emotions in the singing I thought Axls voice sounded great... and I do feel for Axl after how long it took to bring Chi Dem out he was gonna cop flack and so much of the delay was not his fault... I mean if Chi Dem was out in say a year people would be great album but the fact it took so long they really are judging it far to much... and everyone picks on poor old Axl leave the man alone..

This music is great it's worth the $ I paid for it
And I hope he puts more out sooner than later.

[Dogface]

I totally understand where people are coming from with the Guns N Roses name issue....and I agree. When I purchased the CD, I always thought of it (even before it was released) that this is an Axl Rose Solo album.....that is truly what it is. Axl kept the name because it is "Guns N Roses" and the entire world knows the name and has an opinion, be it love / hate / couldnt care.......again, its all about Marketing....

I love Chinese Democracy, I thought it was a brilliantly written, pristinely recorded, masterfully played solo album. Axl is somewhat of a genius in my opinion. I really look forward to the next solo album he puts out, hopefully it wont take 15 years.

[PigeonWing]

Mar 17, 2009 7:20:33 GMT -5 AussieGirl said:

Mar 17, 2009 2:06:01 GMT -5 PigeonWing said:

Heh, looks like we've all gotten a bit off topic here
None the less, I've gotta chuck in that I love Chinese Democracy. As a HUGE fan of prog metal, I really enjoyed the highly produced, massive sounding nature of it...and Slash really liked it (and congratulated Axl), so I can't feel guilty in that regard.

Looks around worried Oh no did pigeonwing and I just agree on something wow that would be a first...

Just kidding I get we all have different opinions of the album but I am one that loves it I admit it...

Oh, dear God, you've broken the code! A Queenslander can't agree with a Melbournian!...whatever shall we do AussieGirl?

I totally understand where people are coming from with the Guns N Roses name issue....and I agree. When I purchased the CD, I always thought of it (even before it was released) that this is an Axl Rose Solo album.....that is truly what it is. Axl kept the name because it is "Guns N Roses" and the entire world knows the name and has an opinion, be it love / hate / couldnt care.......again, its all about Marketing....

I love Chinese Democracy, I thought it was a brilliantly written, pristinely recorded, masterfully played solo album. Axl is somewhat of a genius in my opinion. I really look forward to the next solo album he puts out, hopefully it wont take 15 years.

I'm totally with you here. I remember Sebastian once saying (does anyone remember where/when?) that it's not WHO makes the music, but WHAT'S made that really matters.

The 'WHO's of Guns N' Roses may be different, but the 'WHAT' sounded great. So why keep the name? As Dogface said, Marketing